Curse

Theli · Sep 28, 2007, 07:48 PM // 19:48

KyP:
Aggresive is permanet!!.. The unkeep cost is stupid.
all the 100000 block u say....

wards doesnt count...u just have Aegis and DA, and its a Chain. first aegis then aegis then DA.
And the other spell is SoD...well SoD has a huge animation, so change ur target..

so ur dealing with aegis or DA and Shields up.
U attack really fast and only face 50% most of time... and blind sometimes but rare..most of bsurge goes to frontline.

so u will be capable to shout GFTE and WY easily....and if u run Anthem Of Flame..that is Free (5e with 10lead....and if u run 12 its 6e, and AoF cost 5).

Quote:

so your reduced to anthem of flame spam, which requires u to have 5 energy available.

if u dont have the 5e..switch Staff or Spear +5e then Anthem of Flame is free. and 10 secs u will gain more energy.

Resume: PARAGONS ARE BAD. Agressive Refrain is BAD

Farin · Sep 28, 2007, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

I play blind bot in gvg. You can't rely on attunment all the time of course because it will be stripped. I don't use gole and my energy is fine. Its not a must have skill on the bar. Sure it makes everything else easier to run but you can survive without it.

If you ever play against half decent team don't expect to have your attunement up anywhere near 50% of the time.

TheOneMephisto · Sep 28, 2007, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

(if your aggressive drops, apart from when you die, you're bad)

Since when do paragons die? Pretty much the only time you see paragons die are if their team wipes. Otherwise, they're almost impossible to spike down, they generally don't go out on dangerous splits, and even if their team wipes they have one of the highest chances of making it out alive due to their armor and positioning.

I Angra I · Sep 28, 2007, 11:21 PM // 23:21

What about not giving energy back to shouts and chants that cost no energy to begin with? And only getting energy from things like anthem of flame/DA/shields up.

And I agree with slight nerfs to GoLE, SoD, ward, shields up, and MoR.

twicky_kid · Sep 29, 2007, 12:52 AM // 00:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

Assuming you just use b-surge (no orb, no gale, no ward) without attunement or GoLE, you'd be out of energy in pretty short order. And if you were to gale and orb, as should be happening, you'd be out of energy in under a minute. With no Glyph, it'd also be hard to get out of a low-energy hole.

The question I'd like to ask is: what do you take instead of GoLE?

I did say you cannot rely on attunement all the time. Attunement will work well in niche builds but not always. Gale and ward do not have to be on the ele bar.

Actually I don't use orb we've decided to take another route with shell shock followed by bsurge. Now the dmg does suffers on the front side but you make it up on the back end. With SoD, WYS, and SoR boosting armor cracked armor makes up a lot of dmg followed by bsurge to cover with blind. It works very well to cover your deep wound and negates some of the armor boosters allowing everyone else to do more dmg. When I first saw cracked armor I thought it was a rather clunky mechanic. After putting it into use I find it more deadly than I had originally thought. Shell shock at only 5e makes it quite a bargain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

So basically you just said a good bar with GoLE is a better bar. Who would not run a better bar over a good bar?

Its been a long time since we've had a real skill balance. I'm expecting one soon. I do a lot of experimenting with bars to ensure I stay ahead of the nerfs. If GoLE gets shattered tomorrow what will we use? I have a plan for that already and know how to run the bar which will give me an edge in the "new" meta. Of course this is speculation on what skills will be changed and by how much. The responses to no GoLE from people is like the entire bsurge bar is going to blow up. That's not the case at all.

Though I highly dought it will be changed back to 1 spell. Its a suggestion nothing more. I would much rather see GoLE nerfed to oblivion and bring back inspiration to the fore front of energy management.

Seamus Finn · Sep 29, 2007, 01:26 AM // 01:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

Gale and ward do not have to be on the ele bar.
.

An air ele without gale is a moron.

pah01 · Sep 29, 2007, 01:45 AM // 01:45

air ele without gale is no longer a moron.

2 sec kd means that it isnt a necessary part of the bar.

EDIT: on second thoughts - i agree with seamus lol, what would you run on the bar instead, sweet RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO all.

There we have it - i have come out and proved ima moron.

twicky_kid · Sep 29, 2007, 02:09 AM // 02:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seamus Finn

An air ele without gale is a moron.

It not a must have skill anymore. 2 sec KD isn't that impressive for its cost, exhaustion, and attribute req. Granted the attribute req is more of a 2nd class limiter.

Theli · Sep 29, 2007, 02:40 AM // 02:40

I wanna know, what are u running??? if u aren't running, gale, ward, glyph, lorb.

Cause i cant imagine...and I've never seen ur guild in obs

but really, Im starting to love ur post..they make me laught a lot!!!.

Free LoD.
Beating guilds N/A with old builds.
Elementalist dont use GoLE.
Gale and ward do not have to be on the ele bar.
Its been a long time since we've had a real skill balance. I'm expecting one soon. I do a lot of experimenting with bars to ensure I stay ahead of the nerfs. If GoLE gets shattered tomorrow what will we use? I have a plan for that already and know how to run the bar which will give me an edge in the "new" meta.

mmmm rly...have u ever played GUILD WARS????

twicky_kid · Sep 29, 2007, 06:13 AM // 06:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theli

mmmm rly...have u ever played GUILD WARS????

Since beta 2004.

If you really want to know 2 dom mes, 1 ele, 2 war, 2 monk, rit flagger. Ward on MoR mes. No need for gale because of the dual dom shutdown before spikes. Wars can take care of all the other KD we need.

Been running with no glyph recently. I stopped using glyph about 2 weeks ago or so. I can play without glyph and not run into energy problems. The bar is possible so even if glyph gets hit a lot it won't matter for me.

I'm not disputing the power of GoLE. I've already said my bar would be easier to run with glyph. As stated 3 other times since people keep skipping the point. The bar will still run even if glyph is nerfed enough to be no longer acceptable for the skill slot.

Btw ladder = nothing. ATs is what matters. I try to stay under obs mode since the ATs were introduced.

Zabe · Sep 29, 2007, 07:30 AM // 07:30

Umm so you say that you run Bsurge without attunement and gole. Without gale, ward and lorb. Right. I can ofcourse realise the wantedness of the cracked armor, so that might not be bad choice. But wtf are you running then? =D

Seriously, you have been giving the laugh of the months for me

D

You got BSurge and shell shock. Well, I think you can manage to save your energy with just those 2. But seriously, no GoLE, you get your attunement stripped for few times, then PLeak in it, then you are one happy ele, but hey, your guild was so pro that you even won some N/A's with BP's so I don't think it will be problem ;D

EDIT: Still laughing to the "LoD is free" thing, ima make a quote from it ;d

moko · Sep 29, 2007, 12:56 PM // 12:56

enough with the bashing. he already said he does not update his guild information on guru, so maybe he's part of a guild you aren't aware off that's doing fine? heck would i know, just keep the bashing down.

Yue · Sep 29, 2007, 04:35 PM // 16:35

Bad guild or not, being around since beta 2004 doesn't make anyone a good player. There's plenty of shitty players around that have been playing since beta and still sit in RA thinking they're amazing.

Regardless, that ele bar is terrible. Pretty sure you'll be out of energy without attunes or glyph. Your attune is going to be gone half the time, and no glyph= gl getting your energy back up.

TheOneMephisto · Sep 29, 2007, 06:51 PM // 18:51

No offense and not meant to be bashing, but really, what are you running on that bar? Considering that you're running an air ele bar without half of the skills that are normally on one. No gale, no ward, no glyph, no lorb. So you've replaced one with spell shock, but what other 3 skills do you need so much that you would make such big sacrifices in your bar for?

Theli · Sep 29, 2007, 07:17 PM // 19:17

bashing?????????

Just ask what is his Ele bar...cause i want to see what is he running, of not running, lorb,gole,gale,ward. nothing about the guild..just add and I've never seen u in obs ...thats all..

cause he wrote this...and goes to his famous quotes :P

Quote:

Its been a long time since we've had a real skill balance. I'm expecting one soon. I do a lot of experimenting with bars to ensure I stay ahead of the nerfs. If GoLE gets shattered tomorrow what will we use? I have a plan for that already and know how to run the bar which will give me an edge in the "new" meta

that make me think.....
I'm not running paragon anymore..cause it will be nerfed..or at least wont run..agressive refrain + Da + gftw + wy + shields up.
not running MoR + Gole + Wards..(well i Dont run that.. I run E-Surge or Hex Eater..with Gole and Wards :P :P :P)
Not Running Melandrus + Wearying
Not Running SoD.
NOW..in the actual meta...not in the new.

Thomas.knbk · Sep 29, 2007, 09:10 PM // 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theli

that make me think.....
I'm not running paragon anymore..cause it will be nerfed..or at least wont run..agressive refrain + Da + gftw + wy + shields up.
not running MoR + Gole + Wards..(well i Dont run that.. I run E-Surge or Hex Eater..with Gole and Wards :P :P :P)
Not Running Melandrus + Wearying
Not Running SoD.
NOW..in the actual meta...not in the new.

Melandru is not going to be nerfed

Mysterial · Sep 30, 2007, 12:41 AM // 00:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

Melandru is not going to be nerfed

Which is why this entire discussion is pointless.

Whammo · Sep 30, 2007, 03:44 AM // 03:44

Heroes: Remove heroes from PvP. People play PvP for a reason, and it's not to fight bots.
The normal hench are fine, as they support the: "BUT WHAT IF I NEED ONE MORE AND I CAN'T ANYONE!!11" argument.
Take one of them, it's an emergency right?

Rampage as One: 25% ASI and stance. (Skill does too much for it's cost, even being an elite. Saves about 3 skill slots and 33% ASI skills have drawbacks for a reason)

Soul Reaping: Only effect players (mobs in PvE) and pets. (Anyone trying to use a necro as supposed to will not be effected much/at all. This will just hit the scrub builds people want to get rid of. SR at the moment is being used to spam all kinds of BS they are not supposed to spam.)

Blades of Steel: 40/50 damage. (Does +120 extra damage?? AAAAAAAW!!!1111)

Tigers Stance, Flail and Burst of Agression: Make duration scale up from 1. (It's in a prim attrib line for a reason right? Also gives some more time to prot/heal those bastard ass spike things)

Glyph of Lesser Energy: 1 cast for starters, 2 with some points in NRG storage. (Every caster class is using this Prim. Attrib. skill..... --->Prim. Attib.<---, i wonder why)

Some people say Aegis, Ward Against Melee and Shield of Deflection are a problem, they aren't tbh. If Glyph of Lesser Energy gets hit these can't be used with such ease. They will still be viable, but just harder to use/manage.

Aggressive refrain: -10 while attacking. (Paragon's Eq. the ultimate tanking turrets of doom atm)

Wearying Strike: 8 sec recharge. (It's a non elite NRG based Eviscerate man)

Siphon Speed: 10 energy and maybe a 10 sec recharge. (33% MSI, and a 33% slowdown, way too much for a 5 energy skill with a 5 sec recharge)

Deadly Paradox: Remove the faster casting clause. (This is a non-elite version of Mantra of Recovery, and gives you fast casting while you are at it... yeah right)

This should make those dagger spamming plebs more bearable, also doesn't make some powerhouse spells (Shadow Shroud, Shadow Form) untouchable.

Spitefull Spirit: 10 energy. (15 energy for an elite Insidious Parasite that does less damage, doesn't steal life and has a longer cast time? Yeye it's AoE but it's elite right?)

Angorodon's Gaze: Give 5 or 10 energy back. (This thing is way too stupidly spammable as it is now, conditions are not hard to afflict on yourself. Not a drawback that justifies the 15 energy returned)

Aura of Stability: 2 KD's, or 10 nrg and 3 KD's. (This thing is just taking the piss as it is, making someone immune to a game mechanic for just 5 energy and 1/4 cast)

Ancestor's Rage: Less damage. (Whats up with the damage? Does way too much for a 5 nrg skill. Try comparing it with something like Flame Burst, see what i mean?)

And loads more, but this would be a good start IMO.

Byron · Sep 30, 2007, 06:27 AM // 06:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whammo

Rampage as One: 25% ASI and stance. (Skill does too much for it's cost, even being an elite. Saves about 3 skill slots and 33% ASI skills have drawbacks for a reason)

Very true. It does too many good things, and the "pet" nerf didn't help too much in the long run. 25% seems reasonable.

Quote:

Tigers Stance, Flail and Burst of Agression: Make duration scale up from 1.

For unconditional (or just about) IAS like tiger stance, Berserker's, and BoA, I agree. But flail and frenzy have obvious drawbacks that offset their goodness.

Quote:

Glyph of Lesser Energy

I'd rather not beat it into the ground. Before that ultra buff back in the nightfall chaos, when GoLE was only 1 spell, no one used it. A reduction to 7e at 0 energy storage would make me happy. 5 is too little, and obviously, 10 is too much.

Quote:

Aggressive refrain: -10 while attacking.

Seems like a good fix, but then paragons would become a forgone conclusion P/W watch yourself. It should probably hit the stand paragon mentality. Like, say, "You gain adrenaline 25% slower." For a perma-IAS, that seems reasonable, and would stop some of that shout spamming.

Quote:

Wearying Strike: 8 sec recharge. (It's a non elite NRG based Eviscerate man)

That skill, though, is pretty much the reason people run dervs. The recharge can't take any more of a hike and still be attractive; the only thing I'd suggest is a damage reduction.

Quote:

Siphon Speed: 10 energy and maybe a 10 sec recharge. (33% MSI, and a 33% slowdown, way too much for a 5 energy skill with a 5 sec recharge)

Doesn't deal any damage, and it's 1 second cast. By the time they cast it, you can be half an aggro bubble away. I don't see much problem, in gvg play anyway.

Quote:

Spitefull Spirit: 10 energy. (15 energy for an elite Insidious Parasite that does less damage, doesn't steal life and has a longer cast time? Yeye it's AoE but it's elite right?)

It's aoe damage and triggers on spell casting. Seems okay as is to me.

Quote:

Ancestor's Rage: Less damage. (Whats up with the damage? Does way too much for a 5 nrg skill. Try comparing it with something like Flame Burst, see what i mean?)

For 5 energy AoE, especially considering its apparent use (ie, melee pressure/spikes), yes. Keep it as is for 10 energy, perhaps.

Burton2000 · Sep 30, 2007, 11:22 AM // 11:22

Well i think rawr ran the ultimate anti melee build in the finals yesterday.

-2 shields up
-2 aegis
-ward melee
-blind surge
-DA
-SoD
-Blurred vision

Shame it didnt really help em against Vroom's build though.